Are you standing out as a small business owner? With over 5 million new businesses being created every year, Natalie Franke believes in a holistic and intentional approach to branding for small businesses. In today’s episode, Natalie joins us to share about her recent rebrand, how she approached it with intentionality, and how small businesses can get their messages out there in 2023!

Branded by Bernel Podcast is brought to you by Bernel Westbrook, lead designer and founder of Branded by Bernel, a design studio dedicated to building strong brands and Showit websites for creative entrepreneurs.

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Natalie Franke is an author, community builder, neuroscience nerd and mama bear for small business.

As one of the founders of the Rising Tide, the Chief Evangelist at HoneyBook, and author of Built to Belong, she leads tens of thousands of independent business owners while fostering a spirit of community over competition around the world.

Building a Brand that Connect with Your Audience

It’s easy to fall in love with a beautiful brand, but then outgrow it. Like so many of us after years in business, Natalie had a brand she loved and was in denial that it was time for change. She plaed around with the idea of a refresh, but when she sat down to think about it, she knew it was time for a full rebrand.

This of it like a pair of running sneakers. Runners have to switch out their sneakers every 300 to 500 miles that they put on it, regardless of how good sneakers are, how expensive they were, or how supportive they were. When they hit a certain point, it’s time for a new pair.

Considering that analogy, she asked herself:

• Is my brand really pushing me forward?
• Is it starting to actually reflect an older version of me?
• Is it who I’m becoming and who I am?

When the answers to those questions were no, she knew it was time to rebrand.

Taking a Holistic Approach to Your Branding

As Natalie approached her rebrand, she toyed with the idea of not even having a logo—don’t worry, she got one. Her focus was on the details behind what would inspire the brand.

Her focus was really on understanding here audience, how the audience she serves has shifted since her last rebrand, and how she changed as an individual in her role. That’s ultimately what influenced her rebrand. Then she took a wider look at where she and her audience were going and how they were consuming content.

This gave her a holistic understanding of her brand as a whole and how people connect with your message. She simply didn’t want to lead her rebrand with a logo.

A prime example of this is my own introduction to Natalie—I didn’t know Natalie’s face until after I knew her brand. I’d come across these inspirational illustrations and doodles that I saved in a folder, learned about Rising Tide and this woman named Natalie who inspired others, yet I didn’t know her face.

I unexpectedly met her aat a conference, she offered to help me, then I was introduced to the Natalie Franke I’d grown to love and be inspired by. That’s how a brand can connect with your audience—through how you make them feel and your messaging.

The Importance of Branding for Small Businesses

Have you ever asked someone why they love living in a certain place? It’s typically due to small businesses, mom and pop shops, and the community. It’s not because a big brand is there.

Over the last couple of years, we’ve seen major shifts in the entrepreneurial space—with positive growth. Here are a few stats to help you better understand these numbers:

• New Businesses Formed Per Year:
  • 2021: 5.39 million new business applications (20% up from 2020)
  • 2022: 5.1 million new business applications

With more people entering the marketplace from an independent, freelance, and small business perspective, the more saturated things are becoming and the more we have to be intentional about standing out, niching down, or figuring out who we’re communicating with! All of that comes into play when you’re looking to rebrand.

It’s totally possible that if you have a laptop and an idea, you can build a six or seven figure business—that’s part of Natalie’s brand. She wants to empower and equip people from all communities and walks of life to build businesses. There is so much potential wealth in your mind when you have the opportunities to pursue them—Natalie believes that shouldn’t just be for an elite few but for all.

Getting Your Content Out in 2023

Business owners have become heavily dependent on getting their content, messaging, and marketing out there in order to grow. Whether you’re a new or established business in 2023, Natalie has a few hot takes for marketing in 2023:

• Don’t get comfortable. If you’re still only on Instagram, we’re in an Instagram Engagement Recession.
• If you market to anyone ages 25 and under, you need to be on TikTok. TikTok is dominating the market.
• Youtube is having a moment this year—expect Youtube shorts to be the next big thing.
• If you’re a B2B business, you need to be on LinkedIn.
• Likes and followers are not revenue.

Connect with Natalie

https://nataliefranke.com/

https://www.instagram.com/nataliefranke/

https://twitter.com/nataliefranke

https://www.tiktok.com/@smallbiznatalie

https://www.linkedin.com/in/nataliefranke/

Connect with Bernel

brandedbybernel.com

instagram.com/brandedbybernel

Review the Transcript:

Bernel
Hey, hi. Welcome to the Branded by Bernel podcast. I’m your host Bernel. You may know me as the branding and web designer who obsesses over the details so you don’t have to, we all desire to be great at what we do. Although once we get there, no one seems to talk about the messy middle. This motivated me to set the table and invite industry peers over to share stories about living and working in the creative world. So grab the OJ and champagne, pull up a chair, join the creative community and be prepared to build a brand you fall in love with. This is the brand new by Bernel Podcast. Today on the podcast, I am so so excited to be joined by someone who I call a friend and an industry leader, Natalie Franke. Natalie is an author, community builder, neuroscience nerd and Mama Bear for small business as one of the founders of the rising tide, the chief evangelist at HoneyBook and author of built to belong, she leads 10s of 1000s of independent business owners, while fostering a spirit of community over competition around the world. Oh my goodness, Natalie, I’m so honored to have you today.

Natalie Franke
I’m so excited. I’ve been looking forward to this for a very long time. Yes,

Bernel
likewise, oh my goodness, if you’re listening to this at home, and you don’t know who Natalie Frank is, you definitely should go check out her Instagram. But I always like to tell people my Natalie story of how I met you. I had been following you for a little while on social media. But the only thing that Instagram was showing in my feet were your quotes. So I had never seen your face. I had only seen these really colorful, like typography handwritten quotes that were always so inspirational. And I was like, oh my goodness, I love her quotes. Literally, I had a folder in my phone for these inspirational quotes, but I did not know who the face behind Natalie Frank was like, I had no idea who this person was. Fast forward. I went to a Tuesday’s together meet up and they told me that was connected to rising tide. They told me about you know, the story of Natalie Frank community over competition still never saw her face guys had no idea what this woman looks like. Like, I’m just like, okay, like, I know the name. So I’m like, wow, she’s definitely a cheerleader. She’s definitely inspiring while she’s put together this community, who is this person? Okay. So now at this point in story, I feel like normal people would have just googled what she looked like. But you know, I was like, whatever. I love the quote, I kind of liked you remaining faceless. Like I just was like, I have no idea who she is. So I was at show it, you mine it at the time. It’s now called spark. But I was at your show united in 2019. And it’s my first time ever speaking. And I’m on a main stage in front of like, 200 people I’ve never spoken before, publicly before. And I’m trying to find the check in area because before the conference, they said, All right, we want all the speakers to meet in this specific location. And I’m frantic guys, like I have flown across the country. I’ve been dropping note cards the whole time traveling. So I get an elevator and have no idea where this room is. And I’m just a little spastic. And in the elevator is this lady who is super nice. I mean, the biggest smile, and she’s like, Hey, how are you? Like, where are you going? And I tell her I’m like, Oh, I’m a speaker. I’m looking for the speaker room. And she’s like, Oh, me too. Like, I’ll I’ll take you like you just follow me. And I’m like, okay, great. So she’s a speaker. So we’re chatting, and she’s super friendly. But in my head, I’m like, okay, like, what am I going to say? I’m super nervous about speaking like, this nice lady is talking to me. But you know, I’m a little distracted. So the elevator opens and someone goes, Hey, Madeline. And I turned and looked at her and I was like, your name is Natalie. And she’s like, Hi, I’m Natalie, for y’all. I could have sank into the ground, because I had been following Natalie Frank for years. But she was the most down to earth. I mean, I’m talking about her like, I’m not looking at it. But she is the most down to earth human that you will ever meet. So that is my Natalie’s story. How I completely had a whole five minute conversation with you before I ever knew who you were.

Unknown Speaker
I remember that. By the way. I remember meeting you in that elevator. But actually, I like it that way. I think one of the things I’ve learned especially in this industry is I really appreciate people that are genuine. Like when no one is watching. Yes, like they’re real. And they have huge hearts and they are who you would hope them to be, you know, in real life. And so I take that as the greatest compliment like

Bernel
yeah, thank you my expectations because there was no entourage there was no like, oh, like I can’t talk to you because I’m not like just super downer, super genuine. Genuinely, I would have never known probably until you walked on stage and then I would have been like I met her in that Elevator yesterday. So, really good, really good. Well, I am excited to have you on the show. And to talk a little bit about just the journey of how you got here. Congratulations. I saw that you just rebranded?

Unknown Speaker
I did Yes. Finally.

Bernel
That’s huge. What was the catalyst behind the rebrand?

Unknown Speaker
Yeah. So I first I want to say I have kind of learned a lot in this process about going through a brand refresh just what I started by thinking of it as and then as it progressed, I realized, oh, it’s not a refresh, you know, like, this is a, an overhaul like to the bones change. One of the things I learned in it is, you know, with every brand, you have to think of it like a pair of tennis shoes, like a pair of sneakers. And if you’re a runner, you know, runners have to switch out their sneakers every What 300 to 500 miles that they put on it, regardless of how good sneakers are, how, like much money they spent on the sneakers, how supportive they were, when they started breaking them in, when they hit a certain point, it’s time for a new pair. And I think I over ran my sneakers, I loved my brand, so much that I had for several years, that I was sort of in denial of the fact that it was time to do an assessment and just analyze like, Is my brand really pushing me forward? Or is it starting to actually reflect an older version of me, right? Like, is it who I was? Or is it who I’m becoming and who I am. And so I started to have that realization, you know, as I was heading into the summer, and just finally getting a moment to breathe. You know, I last year 2021, I published a book, I gave birth to my second child, I went on maternity leave, like there was a lot of things happening on the personal and professional side that consumed me. So we get to 2022, I’m finally getting a chance to breathe and to look at things through a different lens. And that’s when I started to see, okay, the brand needs at the time I thought again, a refresh, I need to kind of get it in real alignment with where I’m going.

Bernel
Oh, my goodness, yes, I love that. And one of the things that is stood out to me and your story that I try to tell people all the time. And as a brand strategist, you didn’t say because you were bored with your logo, you didn’t

Unknown Speaker
actually, oh my gosh, you’re gonna you probably you’re gonna think I am nuts. And you might want to just edit this next part out of the whole podcast. But I didn’t even want a logo, I actually hang in there with me, I actually questioned whether a logo for what I do was even necessary. Now, I ended up creating a logo in this rebrand, but you’re right, not only was I not bored with my logo, but I in the rebranding process that to my designer, I don’t know that I need a logo, like I just how can we just pick a font and type my name in it or for why I was using my signature? And so, you know, I think that again, like, I so much of what in the past, I consider to be a brand like I would have told you a decade ago, my logo equals brand like logo is brand. That’s what brand is now we all know that’s not true. And we know that, you know, brand designers, strategists have been arguing for decades, to help people see beyond that very, very misguided, thought, right. But what’s so fascinating is that in the last probably less than five years, I would say in the last like three years, maybe even 18 months, if we want to get really specific, the way we understand brands, even brands by independence and you know, solo creators has changed so dramatically because of social media platform shifts and the way that people are actually being introduced to you to your business to your content to where a logo was the least of my thoughts in this I was like I am blending in. I’m blending in on social media, I my message isn’t getting out isn’t getting across in the way that I need it to if I want to go out and advocate and be a champion for independent businesses, you have to know who I am and what I’m saying it has to be seen and it has to be heard and it has to get into the forefront of the policymakers and you know, the changemakers if I’m blending into the background with pretty quotes, regardless of how beautiful they are, they’re not doing me or our community a service are not helping. So I say all of that to say, you know, even in going through the process, I do did do a logo, we have a logo, I love it. And there’s a lot of symbolism behind it. Like there’s a lot of symbolism and intent behind how we did everything even though it looks simple, which is so cool. But my focus was really on one understanding my audience and how they’ve changed in the people I served how like serve how how they have shifted in those last six years since I rebranded the first time how I have changed and grown as an individual as a leader, as an author. And therefore that would influence the brand. But then also taking a kind of wider look at where are we going, you know as a world where are we going? How are people consuming content? How can I be taking this brand and bringing it to life through things like short form video or moving graphics or, you know, something as simple as a tweet carousel? How do we re imagine that to maximize the, you know, uniqueness of it, or the way it’ll connect with our audience or the way that a little receipt gets seen and populated in an Explore page, I could go on and on. But the logo for me was sort of this like, Yeah, I mean, maybe I need a logo. But what I really need is a holistic understanding of who I am and how I show up. And how that connects to the people that I’m serving.

Bernel
Yes, yes, yes. Oh, my goodness. Like,

Unknown Speaker
you’re not going to delete that part. You know, not at all. Okay? Because it’s a little hot Tiki, it’s a little like, I don’t think it’s common, the common way think people would think of a rebrand. But it truly is where I landed,

Bernel
a hot take, but it’s a needed take. Like, I think people need to hear this, that has been a message that I have been literally trying to scream from the rooftops. And I feel like it gets drowned out in the age of social media and visually lead marketing, where people are like, Yeah, but visuals mean everything. And I’m like, to an extent, but how people feel when they interact with your brand. That’s what means everything. It’s the connection piece. It is not the visuals, and your visuals should support how people connect with you. They should not be your brand recognition. And it just goes back to me not knowing who you are by face. Your brand recognition was your message to me. Like that’s what Natalie Frank stood for it to me was an inspiration. It was not that I knew your logo that anytime I saw an NF, I’m like, oh, that’s Natalie. It was how I felt when I read your content. And so branding is a holistic experience. Branding is made up of multiple pillars. And visuals usually are the last component and they should be a support component. Not the whole thing. So I’m so glad that your rebrand was not led by a logo.

Unknown Speaker
Oh, man, that’s good to know. I really just affirmed me there. Yeah,

Bernel
yeah. Well, it was mutual, you affirmed me? And I was like, am I the only person who feels like that branding is so much larger than that. But you’re right, I feel like there has been a wave toward understanding that brands are so much bigger than the visuals probably in the last 18 months. When I made my business brand new by Bernel, it was 2017. And so many people said, so you make logos. Like that’s literally what my business name meant. They were like Bernel makes logos because the name of her business is branded by Bernel. But I do feel like there has been a shift into like from that in the last 18 months. I wonder if that’s a pandemic side effect.

Unknown Speaker
So there are some big shifts that have happened. You know, in the lab, we said 18 months, we could say two and a half years, like I said, three years, whatever, however you wanna look at it. Yes, I do think there have been some major shifts, not just to how we are consuming content on the internet and what we want to see because again, you can look at it through so many lenses, but it went from highly curated, like we obsessed over our feeds, some people still do and that’s okay, if that’s, that’s your brand, your brand needs to be highly curated and has a very specific type aesthetic. Of course, I’m not saying don’t do that, but what I am saying is holistically there was a massive shift, there was a massive shift from people wanting everything to be curated a feed to be light, dark, light, dark, or like perfectly aesthetically beautiful. From the from the you know, first glimpse first impression, I remember even teaching on this, I was like first impression is so important. And it it is. However, I think the pandemic really shifted us it really changed us it you know, kind of made us crave a little bit more of the real real, the authentic the behind the scenes than the you know, mix of highly produced with like someone in their kitchen with no makeup on and loving to see those things side by side, see the whole, you know, 360 version of a human being that you’re working with. And I do think we because we kind of pulled back into our homes. We stopped living on the outside. And so people wanted to understand what was happening on the inside. We wanted to see what people’s lives were really like because everything changed. And so yes, I think that happened. But then also, economically, there have been some massive shifts. So more and more people are going independent, some quick stats here just to kind of anchor this for everybody. So everyone’s heard of the great resignation. And we’ve heard about conversations around quiet quitting. Fundamentally, we know in the corporate world, there was a massive turnover. There was a massive change where people took a look at their lives. They took a look at how they were spending their time. And they said, You know what, I am not going to spend X hours a day of my life being miserable in a toxic work environment where I’m not valued for my expertise, my knowledge, I have to deal with all of these uncomfortable situation like I just I’m not doing it anymore, and they quit either go find a better job with a better work culture, or a lot of them went independent. So year over year 2020 2021 And even last year 2022 That data just came out. We saw a massive upswing in the number of new businesses formed in the United States. 2021 was 5.3 9 million new business application So that was up 20% From the year prior, which was already a record setting year and 2020. And then last year, a lot of people in 2022, were saying that we’re going to see it go right back down to the three millions like it had been for a while. And sure enough, last year 2022, it was 5.1 million new business applications. So that trend, although it didn’t continue to accelerate is continuing to remain high in regards to the number of people that are starting small businesses. And that is incredibly important. Because with more people entering the marketplace from an independent freelance small business perspective, the more saturated things are becoming, the more we have to be intentional about standing out niching down or figuring out who we’re communicating with, all of that comes into play. And so I say that to say yes, I do think the pandemic had an impact, whether it’s you know, how we want to consume the content, or even just the landscape in which we’re working, more people are going independent. Entrepreneurship is being democratized. It’s a good thing. It’s a good thing. It does, though, require us to be really intentional with how we’re navigating our brand.

Bernel
Oh, for sure. And those stats are so interesting, we will definitely make sure those are highlighted in the show notes, because I cannot even write them down fast enough. But it I see it, it’s definitely reflected in how many people in your industry are popping up online now. Like you have to do more than the bare minimum in order to be seen now. And you’re right, it is a good thing. It’s keeping us all on our toes a little bit. No more lazy marketing, and no more lying, no more basic branding, no more, you know, just speaking in cliches, we really have value and we have to provide unique value, or you will get drowned out because there’s so many people I mean, 5.1 million is a lot of businesses. And

Unknown Speaker
that’s new. That’s just new. That’s like, I think, and we’ll make sure to double check this stat in particular, I think it’s at 14,000 a day were added in 20 22,000. It’s just it is I mean, when you really think about it, it is so it’s, you know, again, I think one lens could be Oh, that’s a lot more competition and a lot of fear scarcity mindset could come in. But also I just want to encourage everyone listening to this, it is an incredible opportunity, the more people that have access to start small businesses, to go independent, to start building this life of passion and purpose, the better our communities are going to be. The better are like think about your hometown, no one gets excited to say, Oh, I love living here because I can get the you know, to our Amazon delivery. No offense to Bezos, but no one’s like I love living in this neighborhood. Because of that, no, they say I love living in this neighborhood because and start thinking about the things that you really love about where you live. Is it the coffee shop on the corner, the restaurant, you know, the the mom and pop shop, the what boutique, the fact that you can walk is it you know, your neighbors are really kind people and they are local. And that you know, it’s there’s something about this, like small business local magic, that the more we can celebrate it, advocate for it, the more we’re going to love the world that we live in, I believe that obviously I’m very biased. But I believe that wholeheartedly. And the more jobs that are created, the more it’s just the more wealth that’s generated within families like entrepreneurship is a wealth generator is so game changing for people, it is truly so game changing, which is one of the reasons why I’m so passionate about wanting it to be more accessible to everyone not to be you know, just for an elite select few that have either funding or you know, insider information, but to actually be in a world where I think we’re moving to where if you have a phone, and you have talent, you have a computer and you have an idea, you can build a six, seven figure business. And you can do it without even having to like, you know, go through traditional channels of getting some kind of degree in a lot of cases, you don’t even need the degree like you just need to learn. You need to, you know, dive in, make the mistakes, believe and bet on yourself, and make incredible friends and build an incredible community and you do those things, you’re going to end up in a much better position than you would if you had just continued clocking in and clocking out and being miserable, if that’s where you’re at. Because there’s so much more. There’s so much more.

Bernel
Oh my goodness. Yes. Like I feel like a bobblehead right now. I’m like, yes, yes. All of this. Yes. I don’t think it’s talked about enough, especially in marginalized communities. That being an entrepreneur puts you in the driving seat. Like I do not think enough people understand that when you are in control of number one could generating more income when you’re in control of, you know, your passion and doing something that you actually love something that gets you excited when you get out of it when you’re in control of providing other jobs to people who may not qualify for whatever reason in the corporate space. And qualifications isn’t always about degrees, but they don’t qualify because they don’t fit the mold. When you can provide jobs for people like that when you can inspire people like that. Yes, that’s the stuff that gets us going. Like that’s the stuff that entrepreneurship is made out of. And I love that I hope that part of that 5.1 million Any new businesses like I hope that some of those people are the first entrepreneurs in their family, I hope that some of those people are like, you know, bringing revitalization to their communities like I Yeah, I’m with you. I hope that’s the direction that our world is going in for sure. I

Unknown Speaker
think that we can cling to hope, because I do believe that and I don’t have stats to back it up. But I would not be surprised. I would not be surprised to see a lot of like, first gen entrepreneurs, a lot of women, a lot of marginalized communities, a lot of you know, like, I just would not be surprised to see a sort of shift and takeover in this small business space, at least qualitatively from our community. Like when I look around, I’m like, Who the future looks good. Like the future looks good. We are we are starting right to kind of make some of those changes. So yes, I love, love. Love that.

Bernel
Yes, I was at a workshop recently. And I said that, and I, it was one of those things that I feel a little embarrassed by saying or maybe not embarrassed, that’s not the right word. I felt a little vulnerable, saying, Hey, I’m like the first business owner in my family. And I this was a fumble and Bumble way to success, quote, unquote, like I was just like, I had a lot of YouTube, and a lot of trial and error and a lot of crying into an ice cream carton. Because I was like, nobody can give me advice from a, like, they did it before me standpoint, like this was not an inherited business. And I said it and I was vulnerable about it. And I was like, That’s my truth. And the amount of people I mean, from all different backgrounds, who were like, I’m the first business owner, my family or me to like, wow, I thought I was the only one on that journey. And I realized that so many people are breaking barriers, and it for whatever barriers look like from where they came from, like so many people are breaking barriers, and it’s inspiring, and it’s so good. And one of the points that you mentioned was just needing your phone, like just needing a phone, a laptop, and a dream like that is all you really need. And so with that, I did want to pick your brain a little bit about content marketing and content strategy and where you feel someone should put some of their time to put their time and energy if they’re new. So we’re not talking about established business owners. If you’re listening to this at home, you have an idea, right? And you just really want to get it out there. What are some ways that you think in 2023 are going to be a good way to get your content out there?

Unknown Speaker
Who Okay, so first thing is this is for the established folks to because let me tell you something, if you’re established, we had we were and I say this week, because I’ve been running businesses for over 15 years, we have a tendency to get comfortable. And we feel like once we learn how something works, we’re like, Oh, I know how something works. Great. But if you’re not being aware, or if you’re not aware of the changes happening, I mean, we joke all the time, or like every time Adam mosseri pops on Instagram, I’m like, Are you kidding me like something new every time right? Yeah. And I say that to be like, don’t get comfortable. So if you have something you want to get out there, you can’t remain comfortable, even if you’re established. So with that being said, here is I’m giving you the real real if you mark it to anyone 25 years of age and under you need to be on tick tock period. Now I know that half of you listening are going to roll your eyes and not do it. The half that do listen, though, are going to be the ones that are still in business 10 to 15 years from now. And I’m telling you that because if you look at the data around tic tock in particular, and you look at how it is competing aggressively with platforms like YouTube, and the fact that people are spending an immense amount of time on a platform with primarily short form video, meaning they’re not sitting down to watch a one hour video on YouTube or a movie replay or an episode on Netflix. They’re watching 32nd clips for the same amount of time, hours and hours and hours and consuming dopamine inducing levels of extreme content, you know that that alone is exciting, but what’s really important about the current moment Tik Tok is having is that you know posting on Tik Tok is getting in front of a cold audience every single time that is different from every other platform that you’re using. When I post on Instagram, I’m lucky if I even get in front of my own followers, let alone new people, I have to have a post that does really, really well to become on the Explore page to kind of jump into that, you know, explore like your non followers are seeing it or I have to boost it, I have to put a little paid spin behind it. Which you know, that’s a whole nother combo for another day around paid, you know marketing and pay to play but if we’re talking about organic with tick tock it’s the complete opposite. So when you post something on Tick Tock 95 to 90% of the people who see it don’t even follow you. They don’t know who you are and that’s for every piece of content that you share. So what’s so mind blowing about that is you’re basically just getting a new top of funnel audience every single time you’re hopping on Tik Tok. What’s also really cool about it is that you don’t have to be super curated or polished Think about it like an Instagram story. Not like an Instagram post. Don’t treat tick tock like this curated I have to have this purse per piece of content to put up there. The content that I’ve had that’s gone. Gone viral me million views, 1.5 million views. Those videos have all been not rehearsed, not planned. And just something that I want to talk about, I just want to talk about, you know, one of them was a story that I have in my next book. And I was like, you don’t want to test this out, I’m going to a conference next week, I haven’t told this story verbally, it makes me really anxious. It’s a really vulnerable moment. Tick tock, we’re gonna test it tic TOCs, my experimental playground. So we record the video, it has over a million views within a week, my follower count doubled in a week. So we share that to say like, it’s a space where you can still really grow without having to pay for that growth. And unfortunately, on other platforms, you have to pay for that growth. And as a side note, if you’re sitting there watching your Instagram engagement go down and down and down. I just published an article on my blog about this. You’re not imagining it, we are living in an Instagram engagement recession. That’s what we’re calling it. Okay. It’s a recession. There’s fewer, you know, comments likes, any sort of engagement on anyone’s content. And it’s been a decline for several years. And there is data around it, if you want to go look it up later has done a really good job of covering it. But unless you’re paying for that access to Instagrams audience, you’re going to continue to see in a lot of cases, you know, that engagement declined. And that includes even doing the things that everyone talks about creating reels leveraging carousels, it still is very much a pay to play marketplace on Instagram. And so don’t compare your organic reach to somebody else boosted post or somebody that’s spending you know, two grand a day two, I literally have a friend I just found out this week, she’s doing two grand a day in Instagram ads. I’m like, No wonder your engagement is 20 times mine. I’m like when I boosted posts for 50 bucks. I think I’m a big spender. Yes, you know, it’s just it’s it’s weird comparing like our yard with like, the dead clumps of grass in it going? Oh no. Why is it such a mess to somebody who has an entire team hired to maintain their golf course. Like you can’t be doing that you can’t be holding yourself to such a different standard. So you have to kind of understand that there’s something else happening on a platform like Instagram so I know I went on a tangent there but all that to say oh tick tock tick tock is where it’s at YouTube is having a comeback. YouTube shorts are going to be game changing this year. Hear me out on that, like, I guarantee it. So if you’re creating it for Tik Tok, repurpose it for YouTube shorts. Also LinkedIn, especially if you’re b2b, LinkedIn, just don’t underestimate it. Okay, I don’t use it as much as I should. I’m speaking from a place of self criticism. I should be using LinkedIn more everyone I know that’s doubled down on LinkedIn. So immense returns last year. So go outside the box, don’t think you have to become an Instagram influencer to be a successful business owner follows likes, they aren’t revenue. Okay, they’re not revenue.

Bernel
The amount of likes you get on a post do not correlate with the amount of dollars in your bank account. And I think you you hit on such an important point, how many dollars did it take to get those likes? So when we look at some of our industry peers, and we’re like, Why is no one engaging on my logo design videos like they are on this other person’s? And when you talk to those people, if they’re not a gatekeeper of information, and they’re transparent, they will tell you like I had told me they’re like, oh, yeah, you know, my ad spin is like in the five figures every month. So yes, they may be generating, you know, likes and comments and engagement, but at what cost? Correct? Yes. What you have to ask yourself, so I totally agree. I am not using LinkedIn to its full potential. I don’t even think I have a YouTube but that’s that’s a different conversation. But definitely tick tock seems to be the wave of the future and I have seen some good, some good engagement on Tik Tok as well. We are going to link to that article about the Instagram engagement recession. You should trademark that Natalie, you come up with the best terms.

Unknown Speaker
I’m not even sure it came up with that. I feel like I’ve heard it talked about several times. But I just it’s like, not in our circle. Not in our space. You know, everyone in our space is just sad. We’re all mad or angry really cursing Adam Mosley’s name, right? But then in these other social media circles occasionally and on tick tock, that’s where I learned so much of this stuff. On tick tock, people are like, oh, yeah, of course. We’ve been in an Instagram engagement recession for months, you know, so I did not come up with that. Please do not trademark that to me. Okay. We will I have no idea who did if we find it out. We’ll drop it in the notes. I’ll do some hunting. But

Bernel
I’ll let you guys know, we figured that out if we think. But yeah, I definitely think the creative community needed this conversation. Um, because yeah, we’re just sitting around, trying to figure out why no one likes our reels anymore, even though it’s a trending song. And we’re using the good hashtags, doing all the right things and all the right things, but maybe on the wrong platform,

Unknown Speaker
maybe on the wrong path.

Bernel
That’s a hot take, too. Maybe you can do all the right things, but if it’s on the wrong platform, you won’t get the results you want.

Unknown Speaker
We’re done. Now we can.

Bernel
No, that’s, that is literally what I wanted to talk about today. And I love that so Natalie, tell the people listening at home now at this point in the show if you have not paused this and went and found Natalie’s Instagram and Tiktok not quite sure what you’re doing, but if you haven’t done that yet, Natalie, where can people find you?

Unknown Speaker
Yeah, okay, so let’s start with tick tock because we’ve chatted a lot about it. So come find me at small biz, Natalie. Small Biz, Natalie. I couldn’t get my handle on it. Somebody stole it. I don’t know who has it. It’s kind of sad. But with that being said, on Instagram, it’s just my name at Natalie. Frank, come find me. And also, I’d say to like, come find me over at the at honey book account as well. We’re doing a ton of really cool content upcoming in the month ahead, learn, observe, give me feedback. Give me like, tell me what you like what you don’t like, I am not a gatekeeper of information. So if you ever DM me, and you’re like, Hey, I saw you doing XYZ, how did that perform? I will tell you, I will absolutely tell you and then let me know how I can share for you. So shoot me a DM on either platform. Let me know what you’re up to let me know that you heard it. You know, me on the podcast, and I’m here to root for you. However I can. Whatever I can do. I’m a mama bear for small business. So let me fight for you. Oh, my

Bernel
goodness, yes, that gives me chills. I love that. And you guys are listening to this episode during Black History Month. And I would just like to say that I am so, so honored that HoneyBook actually asked me to be part of a black history live. So that will actually be coming out the same week as this episode on February 16. I will be live with HoneyBook if you are not familiar with them, we will link HoneyBook in the notes as well. powerhouse of a platform. But that’s a whole other conversation. But they are doing big things over there not only in the tech space, but just big things in being cheerleaders for creative entrepreneurs. So thank you so much, Natalie, for being on the show today. Thank you so much for having me. Wow, that went by really fast. As always, thank you so much for showing up in my little corner of the internet. I would love to hear your thoughts on the show. So please, please subscribe, leave a review and share what you learned with friends. Some of the best things in life are freebies. So don’t forget to head over to Brandon by bernel.com to check out our free branding goodies, the show notes and more educational resources