You’ve created a beautiful website and brand for your business, but are you missing out on connecting with your audience through your website copy? Rachel Greiman of Green Chair Stories joins us to talk all about the importance of copy, the different ways her team works with business owners and how website copy can impact your bookings.

The Branded by Bernel Podcast is brought to you by Bernel Westbrook, lead designer and founder of Branded by Bernel, a design studio dedicated to building strong brands and Showit websites for creative entrepreneurs.

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Rachel Greiman is a copywriter and documentary family photographer in Denver, CO. She owns Green Chair Stories, a company committed to writing websites that get photographers booked. She believes cookies are a perfectly acceptable breakfast food, as long as you eat some salad later. She lives with her giant dog (an 80-pound bernedoodle named Bernadette), her giant husband (a 6’6″ man named Travis), and her currently little (but probably soon-to-be giant) babies in a bungalow in the city.

The Importance of Copy

While it’s important to create a brand through design that is unique and sets you apart in your industry, copy is just as important in communicating your brand. It’s part of the branding trifecta: photographer, designer, and copywriter.

Determining if Copy if Your Problem

Before you hire a copywriter to adjust your website copy, it’s important to ensure that the problem in your business is the copy. If you’re just getting started, still figuring out what you want to shoot or who you want to work with, and you haven’t given your brand time to build on it’s own, hiring a copywriter may not be the best option for you. You can do this through an audit or a coaching call to talk through your website.

Working with Green Chair Stories

For business owners and photographers who are looking to work with a copywriter like Rachel and her team at Green Chair Stories, there are a two ways to consider working with them.

Website Copy Audits

If you’re in that phase where you’re trying to figure out where you’re falling short, either in your copy or services, or user experience, you can connect on a one hour call, where you’ll walk through your copy line by line to determine what your next steps should be with suggestions.

One-on-One Copywriting Services

At Green Chair Stories, they offer one-on-one copywriting services where you’re their only client for 11 days. Through interviews with past clients, a lengthy questionnaire that the client fills out, and research of testimonials and posts, the copywriter comes to the first call with tons of questions to review with the client.

Once that call is completed, the writer dives head first into writing your first draft over the next seven days. From there, it’s a lot of back and forth on the copy and fine tuning what the writer has created.

THREE ACTIONABLE STEPS TO MOVE YOUR BUSINESS FORWARD

Now to my favorite question here on the show, I asked Rachel, what are three actionable steps that someone could take today to move their business forward in regards to copywriting?

1. See how many Calls-to-Action you have and where they’re leading; ensure your goals are being me.
2. Copy and paste some of your favorite things from your website and repurpose them into social posts.
3. Use the first section of your website to meet your potential clients where they are (don’t make it about you).

Grab Rachel’s Guide to Write Your Site

If you’re ready to do a little planning and copywriting for your site on your own, Rachel has created the Guide to Write Your Site. Inside this guide, Rachel shares a list of 15 questions to ask your past clients, similar to the research her team does, that will help guide your website copy.

Connect with Rachel

greenchairstories.com

instagram.com/greenchairstories

facebook.com/greenchairstories

Connect with Bernel

brandedbybernel.com

instagram.com/brandedbybernel

Review the Transcript:

Bernel
Hey Hun. Welcome to the Branded by Bernel podcast. I’m your host Bernel. You may know me as the branding and web designer who obsesses over the details so you don’t have to. We all desire to be great at what we do. Although once we get there, no one seems to talk about the messy middle. This motivated me to set the table and invite industry peers over to share stories about living and working in the creative world. So grab the OJ and champagne, pull up a chair, join the creative community and be prepared to build a brand you fall in love with. This is the Branded by Bernel Podcast.

Bernel
Today on the show, I am joined by Rachel Greiman. Rachel is a copywriter and documentary family photographer in Denver, Colorado. She owns green chair stories a company committed to writing websites that get photographers booked. She believes cookies are perfectly acceptable breakfast food as long as you eat some salad later, she lives with her giant dog and 80 pound Bernie doodle named Bernadette, her giant husband a six six man named Travis and her currently little but probably soon to be giant babies in a bungalow in this city. Oh my goodness, Rachel, I am so honored to have you on the show today.

Rachel Greiman
I am so happy to be here. What an introduction. I should have shorten that up for you.

Bernel
No, I love it. Oh my goodness. I read it obviously prior to yes talk. I was like oh my goodness. Everything is so fun in your life. Like her life story.

Rachel Greiman
It is it is a story and yours is too and let me tell you right now I’m just kidding.

Bernel
Oh my goodness. Well, we have so much to cover today. Guys. If you didn’t get it in the intro. She is a copywriter and I love talking to copywriters. I’m a web designer. I feel like copywriters are kind of my favorite people. Don’t be jealous photographers. I want you guys to know how important copywriters are in making sure that you have dynamic branding, and that your message shows up cohesive and clear across platforms. So I’m excited to pick your brain Rachel,

Rachel Greiman
I am so excited to chat with you. Because even though I have to play favorites with photographers, because that’s like my literal whole business a close second as designers because it is so sad to write really outstanding copy and then see people DIY their design. And it’s like I applaud people for trying but I know when I DIY my design, it was pretty.

Bernel
Hey, I tell people is the trifecta. You need all three. You need a writer and a designer?

Rachel Greiman
Truly, truly. Yes.

Bernel
So let’s take a step back. Because I really love to hear how you got to where you are like one of my favorite parts about having a podcast is really digging into that journey of entrepreneurship. Yeah, so tell me, have you been in business?

Rachel Greiman
Eight years? just celebrated my eighth year? Yeah.

Bernel
You’re a real entrepreneur? Oh, yeah,

Rachel Greiman
I made it. I made it. Just call me CEO, please.

Bernel
Yes, I am here for completely. So in the last eight years, though, I’m sure you’ve seen the industry shift and change. And you know, all these new things have come out. So how do you feel like your services have evolved? Or even like the purposes of your services?

Rachel Greiman
Oh, my gosh, so much. Well, I think when I started out as a family photographer, eight years ago, that was like what I was gonna do in business, even though I had been a copywriter for nonprofits for years by then. Because I was always both photographer and copywriter, I always had both together. But I was like, You know what, writers don’t make money. I’m just gonna, I’m just gonna do photos. And then I feel like, you know, you’re in on the Facebook groups, you’re getting advice from people, you’re giving advice to people you’re learning, you know, how to do your taxes. And I, in the beginning, it wasn’t as big of a deal, like in 2014 When I started, but then I would say like, 2015 2016, I started to see people talk about copy for the first time, you know, had been around for a couple years at that point, but nobody said boo about copy. Nobody cared about it. And all of a sudden, people were talking about it in these Facebook groups, and I’m just like, oh, copy. I know that. Like I’ve been doing that since I was a teenager, you know. So here’s what I basically what I majored in. And I was just like, how do these two, you know, how do these two combined, and I realized a lot of educators and digital marketers had started like beating the copy drum a little bit about, it doesn’t matter what you sell. It doesn’t matter if it’s a service or a product, because historically, it’s mostly products that people focused on for coffee. And I think we started to see a shift more toward service related coffee in You like the 2015 2016? Year? And so when I started seeing that, that was when it was like, Okay, I could build out a service for copy around for other people like me, like photographers, other creatives. And once I started, it just like was a boom, you know, I saw it everywhere. I heard about it everywhere. And it seemed like every conference or course you took that was a piece of it, you know, how do you figure out your messaging? And I think a lot of it, I should look this up. I don’t know, when Simon Sinek wrote his book Start With Why I think that’s what it’s called. But he talked a lot about like, the why behind your business. And you see that everywhere now. But I think it might have been 2012 or 2013, that he wrote that book. And I think it just took a couple years to shift into our like, smaller business world. So yeah, did I answer your question? I just went on a full blown rabbit trail.

Bernel
No, you completely answered my question. I love it. I, I love that you started off as a photographer, because I felt like it just it gives you that foundation to truly speak their language, totally know exactly what they need. But also, one of the things that I heard in your story that I feel like is so familiar to all the different creative entrepreneurs that I talked to, you saw a need in the industry, you were in those spaces, you were very hyper aware of the fact that like, wow, they keep asking the same question. Or, let’s keep talking about like, find your messaging and find totally, and the fact that you knew you have the skill set, and then you coupled that with acting on it in the right time. I mean, that’s why you asked this. Yeah,

Rachel Greiman
but okay, let’s not give me too much credit here, I have to be a little bit honest, in that I was feeling like, that was the only way I could contribute in these groups. You know, everybody’s teaching me all this valuable information about running a business. I had no idea what I was doing. I was like, Oh, you have a question about copy, I can definitely help you with that. And I would jump in. And after helping so many people for free, it was like, oh, ding, ding, ding. Hey, think about this for a second, Rachel, maybe you could sell this. So I just happened to get lucky in that it was kind of at that same genesis of like, more people, the larger creative community talking about copy. And like, I can’t say that it’s that much different than 2010. Because I wasn’t a business owner in 2010. But I can tell you that excuse the dogs barking. We have donkeys here. Um, I wasn’t a business owner in 2010. But I know that in 2015, the education space also exploded. And I have to assume that’s because the internet got easier to use, you know, and that has to be a driving factor. You know, when it when Squarespace came out, and I am making myself sound 55 years old,

Bernel
you guys, I can see her and she looks completely Young. Like, you’re like why? Why did you just bring out Auntie Rachel.

Rachel Greiman
I have never sounded this old ever. But it’s amazing. I’m 35. Most of my clients are about a decade younger than me. And it’s amazing how old they make me feel on the daily. But it’s true, the internet was a lot different in 2015 than it was in 2010. You know, show it didn’t exist, we did not have these drag and drop platforms that where you could build a stunning website in a day. Like I remember building my website on Squarespace in 2014. And it took me like, hours and hours every day for over a month to get it even nearly passable, you just did not have that DIY capability that you have now. So yes, this is anti Rachael telling you the Internet has come a long way and you should be grateful. But all that to say, I just think that the more people that had an opportunity and had the mic, per se, to have a public space, we’re talking more about copy, and I benefited from it. So I don’t want to take credit for all of that.

Bernel
Yes, well, I love the story. I’m still gonna give you some credit. Thank

Rachel Greiman
you appreciate.

Bernel
You definitely took a hold to the opportunity. And that’s really a lesson here, guys. If you’re listening at home, if you have an idea if you have a skill set that you really just kind of feel like already have a business doing something else. And maybe I don’t need to jump on that. This is me telling you that there’s room for you to be good at two things.

Rachel Greiman
Or seven. You can be good at seven things if you want.

Bernel
That is true. That is true. I tell people I only do things I’m good at guys. services outside of my zone of genius. Yes. Yes. Well, thank you for sharing your journey with us. How do you feel like that journey impacts other people like what are your thoughts as far as like paying forward this knowledge in your into Sure,

Rachel Greiman
yeah, I mean, when I think about talking to other creatives, I just started offering just like coaching like calls. And I hate calling them coaching calls, because I’m not a coach. It’s more just like, tell me the thing that’s frustrating you and how you want it to be different. And I’ll help you figure out a way to make it different. And I started offering that only because some people were hiring me for copy. And they’re paying 1000s and 1000s of dollars for it. And I’m like, you just needed to be steered in a different way, like your foot was one step off the path. And I can give you advice for one hour, that’s going to put you right back on the right one. And copy is not always the problem, you know. So as much as I am all about selling my services, I’m more about, you know, talking to people and potential clients and only taking on the ones that truly need, like, can truly pick up over putting down. And I find that people invest in so much education, or services outside of me, you know, anything, because they’re trying to solve a specific problem. And they haven’t even named the problem yet. And if you can’t name the problem that you have, then you’re going to waste a lot of money trying to figure out what it is. So if there’s any message that I can ever pay for word, it’s like, name the thing you want, and name the reason you don’t have it.

Bernel
Oh, my goodness, yes, I love that. I Where’s my pen and paper, I need to write that. Um, I recently realized that the same problem was happening in my business. With my clients. They were trying to solve this, this problem, this elusive problem where they build clients where they couldn’t scale or they felt they couldn’t be at that certain price point. And everybody’s like, we need a new website. And we’re like, well, there’s nothing wrong with your current website. It might just be that your messaging isn’t clear, it might just be that you need call to actions, I literally sat on a call with someone and I said, your website’s beautiful. Like, I’m not sure I can make it more beautiful. However, you had one call to action button on that entire website. And just that little piece of information, they were able to add more buttons, get people into their workflow, and they’re like, my inquiries have doubled. And it’s like, you’re telling them to reach out to you more, you got to tell them how to contact you. So I definitely agree with you offering like audits and strategy calls and things like that are just really good, because sometimes people do not need the whole shebang, the whole totally, so to speak. So yeah. Yes. Well, now that we’re kind of talking about your services, I mean, this is what I really want to chat with you about. Yeah. You doing? Oh, my goodness. What do you offer? How do you do it? How long does it take? Like I just yeah, of course.

Rachel Greiman
Yeah. So we offer copywriting for photographers, we are the niche shiest of niches. And we did that intentionally. We want a photographer to land on our website and feel like she was talking to me, you know, like, she knows my struggle. She knows, like my intimate need, you know, in life. And so not she, they now it’s a collective, it’s not just me anymore, I gotta get out of the Rachael headspace. There’s a bunch of us. But I really want people, I wanted people to feel really comfortable there. So we offer kind of three ways. You can do it yourself, we have a guide. So you can buy the guide and just walk yourself through it. And I really encourage people to do that. If you’ve haven’t been in business very long. Or if you’re still figuring out who you like to work with and what you’d like to shoot, do not pay anybody a lot of money to do anything for your business yet. Unless they’re a coach, that’s gonna help you figure that out. But like, as far as designers, sorry, sorry, designers, but like designers and copywriters, like figure out who you’re for and what you’d like to do before you invest in all that. We have audits, like you said, which we love to do, which is still in one on one service, but it’s only like, an hour together talking through what isn’t working on your site and giving you suggestions about how to make it better. We’re writing copy line by line, it’s still a copy audit, but we’re giving design suggestions, I give suggestions on who I think they should work with next next steps in their business, blog ideas, all of it. And then we have our one on one services. And those are our most popular service offering for sure. We work with clients for 11 days. It’s a very fast process. Once you start with us, you are our only client for that 11 days, the writer that you’re matched with is not writing for anybody else. They don’t want anybody else’s voice in your head, but the person they’re writing for. So they come into that call on a Monday or we always start on Mondays with new clients. And they will have interviewed three of that photographers past clients. And so we have a bunch of research about how people talk about that photographer. Why they said yes to them what they liked about working with them. Because I always say let your clients do your writing for you. So we practice what we preach and we interview their favorite past clients. And then there’s like a 40 question questionnaire that the photographer has filled out. We’ve read every testimonial you’ve ever received every social media post, so we can Come in with questions. And that we have an hour long call with the client on a Monday, ask a ton of questions, get their voice, their tone. And then we spend the next week writing that first draft. So your writer ghosts you for. And they dive headfirst into the research. And together we write and edit the first draft of the website. So seven days after the first call, that client gets their first draft, and then they have from Monday until Friday to edit with our writer. So there’s five full days, it’s not like two rounds or anything like that. It’s like as much as you want to make comments in that Google Doc, we’ll jump back in and help you. But we’re not working with anyone else. So they’re really, we really, really make our clients the star of the show. For the time that they work with us. They’re investing a lot of money, a lot of effort. And it’s it’s high stakes for a lot of people. They’ve struggled with copy for a long time by the time they get to us. So we want to make them feel like we are as invested in them as they are in us. So we clear our schedules. And during working hours, they are ours.

Bernel
Yes, oh my goodness, so much to unpack there. I don’t even know where to start. First of all, that is incredible that you only take one client at a time for that individual copywriter. I think that’s incredible that you can really kind of get in their headspace and stay in it without having to jump between the voices of multiple people. You mentioned having a team how large is your team.

Rachel Greiman
So it’s me and my captain of organization, Jess, my shining star, she organizes everything all the admin that comes out of our business goes through her. She’s the queen in my inbox. And then we have three writers. We’re actually bringing on one more probably later this year when we get busy. But it’s three women. We all live in Denver, we’re a fully female team. And so we get to see each other’s faces occasionally, which is really nice. They are all writers. One of my writers has a three book deal right now with HarperCollins. She’s an incredible novelist. And yeah, all my writers have like a really wide variety of writing experience. And so when I hire people I typically don’t hire copywriters. I hire storytellers, who know how to write the arc of a story and keep people engaged over a long format. And then I just teach them how to sell.

Bernel
Yeah, I love that. That is so so good. And I felt like

Rachel Greiman
copy is a hack. It’s not an art writing is an art. If you’ve mastered the art of writing, you just need to figure out the science of copy and the science is really easy to teach.

Bernel
Oh my goodness, is that a quote? Is that on your website?

Rachel Greiman
I don’t think so. But that is a quote from someone much more famous than me. copywriting is a hack not an art.

Bernel
Okay, I definitely have to find my quote guys. Yes, it will be in the show notes. Yeah,

Rachel Greiman
it’s really good. It’s either it’s either one of like the really old white dudes that is like the founding fathers of copywriting, or Joanna Wiebe. That’s who I quote all the time. Oh, yeah.

Bernel
Totally different people. Exactly. Oh, my goodness. I love that. I also love your approach to allowing the clients to speak for or allowing your clients clients. Yes. For them. That’s incredible like that. I have worked with a handful of copywriters and it I mean, I’m a website design. Yeah, I feel like to a good copywriters. That is an approach I’ve never heard before. So that might be a Rachel, Pat and agree, hear stories.

Rachel Greiman
It might be again, I am not taking credit where it’s not do but I appreciate you saying that. i So Joanna Wiebe owns copy school, it’s like the place all copywriters go to get certified. It’s the most robust place to get copywriting education. And it was designed for SAS writers like services. What is it Software as a Service, like dubsado Honey book, those are all SAS companies. So she designed this copy school for people that were going to be writing about products like that. And so those kinds of copywriters will survey and somebody like dubsado, or HoneyBook, they have 1000s and 1000s and 1000s of clients, you know, they’re not a one on one service kind of gal. So Joanna teaches copywriters, how to survey hundreds of people, and how to distill that data down into messaging. So I just took what she does, and adapted it for people who only work with 10 to 30 clients a year. And I say pick your three favorites. That’s what I’m calling. So those I just have them pick their three favorites and then we can build you know, an avatar or an ideal client from those three, rather than making it up. I always say this, but I don’t care if they show up an anthropology that doesn’t tell me anything about their needs or desires. So if we can use you know, real people in reality that you’ve actually worked with that you can give me real data about, I can create a much stronger persona to write to on your website. So I just stole her approach and applied it to services.

Bernel
Oh, my goodness. I mean, it sounds like a brilliant approach seriously, um,

Rachel Greiman
it honestly just makes our job easier do? Yeah, for

Bernel
sure. Well, and I think that it’s a good exercise, even if you’re not a writer, or even if you’re not like hiring a writer, I think it’s just a good exercise to ask three of your clients like, how would you describe me? Like, this process? What did you like the best about it? What’s something that was an unexpected benefit of work?

Rachel Greiman
Yes. Oh, you’re already taking it and running?

Bernel
Well, because I’m thinking, like, you know, in our heads is is designers, photographers, service based professionals. No matter what industry you’re in, you have an idea of why people like you, like, it’s kind of like, Oh, me because of my minimal design, or you like me, because my photography style captures emotion. And that may be true, but they also might like you because of your communication. They might like you because you always have a mimosa. Exactly, exactly. Reasons that sometimes we don’t realize and so, and then I know from being in the seat of working with a copywriter, I can’t always express why they like me. It’s just like, I don’t know, they just picked me.

Rachel Greiman
Totally, totally. And I always tell people, you get hired for a different reason that people refer you those are two different things. Because somebody likes you because of your style, whether you’re a designer or a photographer, any service, they like you because of what they saw externally. But they got a peek behind the curtain when you provide that service. And when they tell their best friend to hire you it’s going to be because you know what, she always answered her email within a day. She always texted me back, she promised me something in the beginning and she delivered on it. That’s what gets you referred. So I’m always telling people that like, you need to highlight that as much as you highlight the gorgeous product or service that you’re providing for people. And I wanted to say in the guide, I tell people, I give people a list of 15 questions to ask their past clients. I tell people before you start writing, you got to research so write down your three favorite people and give them a call. And again, I’m gonna sound like Auntie Rachel. I am a millennial. I don’t like the phone either. But Gen Z really hates the phone. So I’m always like, just pick it up. Just do it. Do it. It’s a it’s good for you.

Bernel
Yes. Oh, my goodness. I love it. I love it. I love it. So that guide is the guide to write your site. Right,

Rachel Greiman
right. Yep. Yep. And it says it’s for photographers, but any service based professional can use it. Okay,

Bernel
perfect. That will be linked in the show notes, guys. So if you scroll down, you’ll see the link to that I’m on green chair stories website. I have to ask Rachel, why is your business name green chair still? Yes,

Rachel Greiman
this is a great question. So I was in the nonprofit world for a decade before I left completely. I had some overlap between nonprofit and my business in the beginning. But the last full time job I had was at a giant rescue mission here in Denver, Colorado. And we worked with people in various stages of experiencing homelessness, some people were in the emergency shelters, and some people were in long term programs trying to transition into housing. And it was huge. It was a gigantic organization. And we decorated our offices, with the furniture that people donated for these families in need. And I was a writer and photographer there. And so I interview people all the time for our marketing stories and fundraising. And I walked into the warehouse my second day on the job to decorate my office with whatever was in there. And I saw this huge green velvet armchair in the corner. And I was like, that’s the one that’s coming that’s coming with me everybody. So they moved it into my office and I had really low light, like the ambiance was like, perfect in that room. And most of my job was interviewing people. So whether it was like, you know, the PR girl that worked in the office next to me or the CEO, or somebody that had literally just come in off the street. There were every type of person sat in that chair. And almost everyone cried at some point in that chair. And I know I can’t give all the credit to the chair. But there was just something about it because everyone stood up and they’re like, Oh, something about this green chair. And then when I left it was like I really valued that honesty and that vulnerability that I was so lucky and privileged to listen to every day. So I wanted that green chair to be a metaphor for my work. You know, if I’m photographing your family, I photograph in the documentary style so I spent 12 hours with a family that is so intimate. And so I want people to have that same vibe that same ambiance I want to exude what the chair gave to people. And now that I write copy still applies. People are telling me some of their deep dark fears and I want them to feel like they’re safe with me.

Bernel
Oh my goodness. That’s incredible story. I don’t know, when I saw green share stories. I was like, I don’t know, maybe green is our favorite color like Yeah. I had no idea that that’s really cool. Um, is that a service that you offer? I know that super random but helping people name their businesses.

Rachel Greiman
No, I don’t. I wish I wish that I was good at naming. Like, I think it is such a superpower I genuinely do. So I have two people who I love for naming. Obedient agency, you should just go look at their website anyway. Because they are. They’re phenomenal copywriters, and messaging strategists. I love them. If I could be anyone in my industry, it would be them. And I’m actually good friends with Lindsey, one of the gals from obedient. And then Andrea Patel, who is a branding and naming strategists. She’s phenomenal as well. So I’ve paid both of them to name different things.

Bernel
Oh, my goodness. Well, I definitely will take a look at their Yeah, yeah. So cool. I mean, I love the story and the impact and the heart behind your business name. Um, yeah, I mean, my name has my name in it. So I feel

Rachel Greiman
like you have a great name. Your name is perfect, like, branded by Andrew now. I love it so much.

Bernel
I was like, oh, alliteration, and yeah, it’s

Unknown Speaker
perfect. Yeah, don’t change it.

Bernel
No, I won’t be changing my business name. Actually. Something that people in quietly slot in my DMs. And I’m like, Hey, girl. Hey. Hi. What do I need my business? Like?

Rachel Greiman
People asking me that all the time? And I’m like, Oh, honey, I’m not the one. Sorry. I wish I could help. Yeah,

Bernel
not my thing. Yeah.

Rachel Greiman
And I wish it was but like, Rachel grindon does not have a ring to it. Like my name was never going to be Rachel grime in photo or copy or something.

Bernel
Oh, that’s funny. Yeah, I, I’m always just like, I don’t know where you should go. So thank you, those. Yeah, they will be in this show. Because I think it’s great to recommend that to people. But what I want to do now, favorite part of the show, grab your notebook, grab your pen, your paper, you’re so passionate, oh, you know, your white tennis shoes that you can write on with a sharpie, whatever. Rachel is going to give you three actionable steps as a business owner that you can take today to help move forward your business. So I’m gonna give you the floor. Rachel, what are you

Rachel Greiman
okay? Okay. I’m gonna make them copy related, because that’s what I do. Brunel already gave you one of the most important ones, go to your website and see how many calls to action you have, and see where they’re leading people. And make sure that the goal that you set for every page is being met by those calls to action, it’s the easiest way to see where you’re losing people and to see where that conversion might drop off. And while you’re there on your website, I want you to cut and paste into a document, your favorite things you’ve ever that are written there, on blog posts on any page. And I want you to pick 10. And there are 10 Instagram posts that you can schedule over the next month, because there’s no reason you can not repurpose that content. Because if it’s important enough to be on your website, it’s important enough to be in an Instagram caption. And people don’t do that enough, especially if you’ve paid for copy. Like I would literally just take each section if you’ve paid for copy and just post that under one of your beautiful images or one of your beautiful designs. Because they’re it’s obviously important words, if you thought they were good enough to be on your website, that’s two, three, this is a tip I give all the time, but it bears worth repeating. I feel like a lot of the templates that people buy, when they buy a template for their website, it prompts them to put the first section on their homepage and make it about themselves and make it about what who they are and why they love their job and why they’re good at it and their philosophy, but nobody cares about you yet. They will. But right now they want to trust you. So what can you say? How can you jump into that conversation your site visitors having in their head and assure them that you understand who they are, what they’re excited about what their struggle is, and then a section or two down you can talk about yourself, because we only talk about ourselves on our website when it serves who were talking to.

Bernel
Oh, my goodness, excellent. I’m sitting over here like a bobblehead. I’m like, in that, um, I offered simply customization as a service. And am I right about that? Yes. So many templates start with like, I am so and so and I’m your wedding photographer. And I’m just like, they don’t even care at this point. Like no Like not yet, or it’s the other way around. I’m like, they already know you’re a wedding photographer. That’s why they’re here.

Rachel Greiman
What do you do? That’s different?

Bernel
Yes. Tell me why you’re different. Tell me what you’re going to do that’s going to, you know, make my day more special than if I went with Jane Doe down the street. Totally.

Rachel Greiman
I always say envision that client, envision your favorite client having 10 tabs open of all the other wedding photographers that are your competition? What can you say that’s going to make her go? Oh, oh, you know, and so many people are looking at those 10 sites that she has up and saying, Okay, what did they say? How can I say that a little bit different? Nope. Stop that. Be yourself. may be different than them.

Bernel
Yeah, I love that. Like Do not try to copy what everybody else is doing. blending in is not the goal guys. Go. I think so many people look at their competitors, their industry peers, as setting the standard, but I tell people, let’s be above the baseline. Like, above the baseline. So exactly what everybody else is.

Rachel Greiman
I love that live above the baseline. I’m gonna I’m gonna write that down.

Bernel
Yes. Oh, my goodness. Well, I am super excited. I cannot believe we’ve been talking to each other for 30 minutes. I feel like we’re gonna be friends. I know. Me too. I’m excited. Yes, I am so excited to see what you continue to do prior to us hitting record, guys. I heard that Rachel sometimes works with people that are not photographer. Yes.

Rachel Greiman
No, no, no, I do. I do I do.

Bernel
So obviously, photographers, if you’re listening to this, and you need copy, you know who to call. But if you’re not a photographer, um, I mean, hey, Phil, shoot your shot. You never know what may happen. Oh, my goodness. Well, Rachel, where can people find you?

Rachel Greiman
I mean, my website is literally eight years old. So that blog has more content than you have time or concern to read. It’s a lot of free info on that blog. And also I am on Instagram every day at some point, unfortunately, but I will be there and I will respond to you. And I really, really do love to connect with people in a meaningful way there.

Bernel
Yes, that sounds so good. Okay, guys, you heard it here. Go follow her slide in her DMs. Do it. Thank you so much, Rachel. HERBIE, thank

Rachel Greiman
you so much for having me. This is so fun.

Bernel
Wow, that went by really fast. As always, thank you so much for showing up in my little corner of the internet. I would love to hear your thoughts on the show. So please, please subscribe, leave a review and share what you learned with friends. Some of the best things in life are freebies. So don’t forget to head over to branded by pronounced.com to check out our free branding goodies. This show notes and more educational resources